How To Make Money With Cedar Logs

Peterson Evagarmaked1952 · Friday, 3 December 2021

Topic: CORRECT WAY TO MEASURE CEDAR LOGS WHEN BUYING FROM SUPPLIER (Read 17831 times)

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The correct way to measure logs is by measuring across the log, inside bark. Some guys will give one bark on thin barked species. So, a log that measure 8" across is 8", not 6".

I know your profit margin is important, but, so is your logger's. If you short him, he's not coming back and you have no logs.

Maybe your finished price is too low. If I got your numbers right, you can cut 24 bf from an 8" log by cutting a 6x6. If you pay for the 8" way, then you can get 23 cts/bf for you sawing. If you pay the 6" way, then you get 33 cts/bf.

I'm not sure of your setup, but, sawing small logs is a hard way to make a living. Some of your profit is sitting in your slabwood. That's not your loggers fault. Make mulch and find a market.

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Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

When we measure cedar logs we use a tape measure and hook one edge. This means we are measuring the bark. Usually measure the narrow way. If it measures on the 3/4 " we usually go up to the next inch if the log is oval. The way I teach my log buyers is to see what size square will fit on the end of the log and not have a corner stick over the edge of the log. A 3" square will just fit in most 4" logs except for those that are right at 4". A 3 1/2" square will fit a 5" log. A 4" square will fit a 6 " log. A 5" square must fit in to be a 7" log. A 6" square wil not quite fit a small 8" log but will fit a large 8" and easily fit in a 9" log. A 7" square will easily fit a 10" log.

Polly, are you sawing ERC or white cedar. If ERC, your price is very low unless your customer will take bark on all 4 corners. A 4x4x8' sells for at least $8.00 wholesale.
6x6 normally bring $1.00 per board foot or $24.00 per cant for house logs.
The fencing market will suck up all 5/8 cedar 3 1/2,4,5 6" x 6' for 60 to 70 cents.

Also we use a special cedar scale developed just for ERC.

Now, if you are sawing white cedar, I do not have a clue.

I am curious where you are located.

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I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

A 4x4x8 Cedar post at the Blue Box Store was just under 18 dollars. Like 17.98 each.

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Lane Circle Mill
Homemade Bandmill

What about bark inclusions on the small end, how and what do you measure to?

Any good tips on cedar log grading?

SMS

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We do not discount logs for ingrown bark unless it is really bad. At the small end, there is usually not enough to matter. If a log has a good bit of ingrown it will be made into a square for the log cabin market or the fence post market.

Logs with unsound hearts, black shaky, or rot pockets are bought at 40% or regular price. These are stockpiled and when we have about 25 tons are then sent to a shaving mill.

Mooseherder, if we can just find those people willing to pay that $17.95 at the mill, we would all have more money than we knew what to do with. (Buy more toys!)

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I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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Polly, American Wood Fibers at Lebanon Ky will buy your slabs if you bundle them up. You need to make a jig that will make a bundles about 3 1/2 feet wide x about 3 1/2 to 4 feet high by 8 feet long. They are buying by the ton now. If you can make 6" cants, I would be interested in them at more than 50 cents per foot.

Hang in there, there are some good markets for cedar. It takes a good bit of effort, but they are out there. Contact all the log cabin builders in your area. There are home owners that want cedar paneling and trim.

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I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Hi Polly. My advice is to take Cedarman's advice.

Also don't overlook the fact that locals will buy your slabs as fast as you can band them up.

One other thing . . . . Please don't use CAPS when posting. It is very hard on the eyes! Especially for old-timers like DanG.

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The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Here is the cedar scale that we use to pay with around here. We measure the bark on one side and take off for bad spots. Short on the stick and you short yourself out of logs. Run wide on the stick and you will starve to death.

Markets are good here in north central Arkansas.

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ARKANSAWYER

Sir,

I am sorry but I do not understand the chart that you sent to me. Can you please explain to me how to use the chart? I know what the diameter meant but I do not understand what the other numbers on the chart reflect. Just what is the price in your area for a cedar log that is six inches diameter and eight feet and four inches long that is in average condition.
Looks like it should be about the same here in Kentucky also.Thanks for your help.

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Polly
Looks like they are board foot numbers for two different length logs (54" and 8'4").
A log 10" scaling diam. would have 30 bd ft if it measured 8' 4" in length.

Hope this helps.

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south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Hey I am a SIR! Ain't that just great!

If you look at the chart the 8' 4" log that 6 inches on the small end is 11 bdft. That means you can saw a 4 1/4 by 4 1/4 cant out of the middle or saw 4 1x4x8' boards. You should be able to saw 10 to 11 bdft from that log.
Here I pay $0.35 a bdft for logs so a 6" log that is 8'4" pays $3.85. I can saw a 4x4 out of it and sell it for $8.00 and sell the bundled slabs and make about $160 a tt load.

The problem is that sawing small logs is a hard way to make money. If you spend most of the day in logs 6 to 9 inches you will work yourself to death. Logs that size will only produce about 100 bdft an hour. So to make up for that we sell most of our wood for $0.60 bdft and up and have found that a plainer makes them look really nice and people will pay more for them. Also we build stuff with the wood and it sells well.

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ARKANSAWYER

Arky, the Ky cedar scale we use has only 14 feet rather than 15 feet as you show. Wonder who changed the scale and which one was the original.

Sure wish I could get cedar for .35 per foot. My competitor is paying .60 per foot for 8" and up and .40 for the smaller logs.

I am thinking of shutting down the mill and just log cedar full time.

Small logs is the reason we use an end dogging scragg. In good logs we can do 40 to 50 per hour. Good slabs go through a resaw. I just don't see how anyone could make it sawing 7" and smaller and do ok without a scragg. With computerized sets our other mill was able to saw up to 90 per hour. A sharp chain system that could hold the logs perfectly could do 300 per hour, but the down stream material handling would be a nightmare. 60% or more of a cedar log goes into mulch or sawdust or shavings. This makes for a big waste handling problem.

But sawing small logs can be profitable, but the margin needs to be 50 cents or more per board foot. Sawing for 30 cents is a way to go broke. Wholesale 4x4x8 $8.
3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 8 $7.00 Retail 4x4 at least $10.00

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I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Another great thread going here. Cedarman/Arky, do y'all ever get logs given to you? I wonder because it seems around here many are simply for the asking, because they are hated so much or because this isn't heavy logging country or maybe a combinatin I don't know. I don't know what the clijmate is like up there in big cedar country.
the latest ones give to me are in the 7" - 12" top range. I just wonder whether or not y'all are asking for them. I have simply resorted to asking landowners if I can have them. I get alot of no's, but I have quit asking for now because I have over 250 acres of cedar alone that have been given to me. It is not ALL cedar but there several thousand trees 7" and up. Alot of smaller ones too but I don't mess with them. Not many in the 12" top range but they are there and alot of 8" - 10".
I am not paying for them for a while now but i have a manual mill so that kills that potential profit margin.
just too much going on right now to worry about it. i had a logger cutting my stuff for me but he over-whelmed me with logs and I have no room for anymore until I process some. Go figure. ::)
I am just wondering though about my audacity to basically call someone and ask them if I can have their cedar trees.
For example, one of my buddy's is a Verizon phoine tech and travels all over the county. i asked him last summer if he knew any land owners with cedar trees that I might be able to get 30 to 40 good logs. Long stoiry short, he referred a guy and i called him. he said he had a deer lease he wanted the cedar thinned out and to "take as many as you want".
He gave me a key and just had me to stop logging a week before season etc. but I basicaly have free reign.
I guess this sounds like boasting I sure don't mean it that way I just wonder if this is a common practice with sawmillers or if I simply have no pride and am a log-begger.
i don't come across that way to people I don;t think. It's not like "Brother can you spare a dime" it's more like "Do you have any cedar trees you need cleared?"

Of course I have to either pay my logger to get them or do it myself, but I have found I am right quick at getting them.

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The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Back in the good old days about 20 years ago, standing cedar was just about free. I was the only mill around and the only one buying cedar from the loggers. Then competition came in. So, when 2 people want the same thing, the person owning that thing gets to thinking, "Now just what will you pay for my cedar". Doesn't take long before everyone thinks their cedar is gold.

Some owners want 1/2 of what the logger gets and some loggers that want the hardwood agree to it. Word spreads. You know the rest.

We do get small stands from homeowners that want the trees removed and give them away, but most want some coin.

In southern Ok, the feds are paying us to remove the cedar, and most landowners will pay about 70.00 bucks an acre to have it cut. But we are not talking the finest cedar in the world here. And we obligate ourselves to come in and grind the whole tree into mulch. We do highgrade the logs though.

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I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

A guy in this business needs all the breaks he can get. If they give them to you for free, don't feel guilty. Just get sawing and selling lumber, posts, cants ...whatever.

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�No amount of belief makes something a fact.� James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Now from time to time I do get free logs but for the most part they do not give whacks of cedar logs like this away. I go through one of these about every week.

But as long as you can make orders like this you can make money.

But if you are having to fetch them logs then they aint free.

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ARKANSAWYER

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CORRECT WAY TO MEASURE CEDAR LOGS WHEN BUYING FROM SUPPLIER